Correspondence

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Correspondence

Post by MikeE on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:26 am

Steve Oates has sent a group email to all buyers, which I have copied here in order to keep all relevant thoughts together:

Dear Mike

Thanks for your email and I will happily participate in the forum you have set up. Next year will be the 10th anniversary of signing a contract with Belgravia Estates and in my own mind I had written off this project many years ago. I think it will be virtually impossible to get everyone onside with any proposals made. I think to his credit Peter Clark attempted this some years ago but the reality I suppose is that, like a jury this group will be a cross section of people with different opinions, attitudes, age groups and financial situations.

I agree with one of the contributors that we could be approaching last chance saloon in terms of trying to save our investment, and in some cases their permanent home. As a result of this latest round of emails I wonder if there could be enough of us that would be able to raise enough cash to negotiate a deal with the creditors, if indeed that is realistic and even possible, taking the previous point raised about throwing good money after bad.

I am not suggesting that we try and raise the full £400k Belgravia liability, but is there a deal to be had with the creditors for £100k or £150k and at the end of it could we secure ownership through a residents company, I believe one of us is a TRNC National so maybe he or she could advise.

So in summary I personally would be prepared to put in some extra money to guarantee securing the land for the existing 31 or so investors. It’s a tough call so fully understand if you don’t

If anyone else feels the same perhaps Mike’s forum would be the best place to continue the conversation

Regards to All


Steve Oates
Plot 32


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At present, I'm having to copy individual emails to the forum

Post by MikeE on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:23 pm

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Re: Correspondence

Post by MikeE on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:59 pm

Post from Jeanette Hudson

Dear all


We are all in an extremely difficult situation.  There is nothing more that we would personally love than to see our villa and the rest of the site completed.  The realities at the moment are, we have tried to take Belgravia Estates to court, however, Jim Hasip or Dan King have made no attempt to come forward and help to find some sort of solution to our problems.  Dan King has, as far as we are concerned, has had absolutely no input into this since we signed up for our villa in 2006 and has anybody ever heard of his whereabouts?


The main problem that we feel is against us, is that, bearing in mind we have channeled all this through our solicitors, Naomi Mehmet (who were recommended to us by Belgravia Estates), they seem to have no clout with the courts as to determining that we have actually paid any money for anything that has been done.  Do the courts not realize that off plan buying and building only goes ahead in stages when money is paid up front to fund the works.  We have a feeling that the negative response from the courts is possibly because we are foreigners and we get absolutely no favour over local interest.


I don't know if this would work, but could there possibly be solicitors in the UK who have ties or interest in TRNC that might actually do something for us, as we feel personally that we are just being strung along to keep putting money in to line the solicitors pocket and at the end of it, we would still get no joy.


We are happy to join in with the correspondence between everyone and my brother John Hudson is keeping involved for my late mother's sake (plot 18) for which she paid £50,000 in full up front to Belgravia Estates, and at the moment, there is only a shell, so where did her money go?  we were told by the solicitors that it would cost £4,000 to keep her estate running, which we feel is almost like blackmail and did not go ahead with it.


Personally, we are £90,000 out of pocket, and still have 11 1/2 years left to pay off the money that we borrowed for this project.  With our own circumstances (redundancy in 2011, hip replacement last year) we are not really in a situation to borrow any more money and anything that might go ahead really needs to be a cast iron situation for us to commit any further.


We welcome any suggestions/comments that anyone cares to make.



Regards
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Re: Correspondence

Post by Barbie26a on Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:32 pm

Jeanette as you state there have been so many obstacles with securing our interest on the site. Like you, I initially used Naomi Mehmet for the purchase. However, having been really 'conned' into paying the weatherproofing tranch by her insistence that the contract meant nothing - but 'this was how it was done in Cyprus' and also being threatened for breach of contract by Dan King by telephone, I decided to not pay her the £2500 she was asking (when Belgravia finally left the site) to take the matter forward.
I then appointed a new solicitor who once again - in the TC mould- has had a slow approach to any securing of my position. Finally he gave me a court date last year, with no conclusion in my favour. The crux of the problem being Naomi Mehmet's failure to obtain a receipt for my payments from Belgravia, as seems to be your experience. Despite Naomi being called to testify and produce bank records, the courts are now refusing to accept my having paid the amounts to them. Stalemate!! As a desperate measure, I have now instructed my solicitor to require Naomi Mehmet to provide me with the necessary receipt/s. If she fails to prove she has paid them, then there may be some further action I can take against her?? I think she has taken our money and as you say had an interest with the builder, so she did have some vested interest in the demise of the site and loss of our hard earned cash.
Regarding lack of involvement of Dan King, as stated above he has been on the scene at times. Pat has managed to get him to pay for some weed killing quite recently I believe. I have an address which I contacted him on in 2010 regarding refunding my purchase monies - (there was a repayment guarantee after 3 years). His response to this was don't waste your time there is no money in the pot!
Address is: D C King, 22 Selby Avenue, St Albans, Herts. A23 5EN
Good luck if you try to contact him!

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Re: Correspondence

Post by MikeE on Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:21 pm

Dear All



I have been reading the letters that have been going back and forth from a few of you and they are still saying the same thing from years past. Yes it would be nice to see everything finished but you all seem to forget some very important issues:-



Say you did manage to pay off the creditors who is going to fund the utilities being put in?



The Mains from the Council for water is now under the new road which will not be dug up again unless paid for which will run in to thousands!!



The Electricity would have to have a new project plan and the work overseen by Kib-Tek before any domestic electric cables and meters would be issued this would cost thousands and the outstanding debt from the government approved site electrical engineer would need to be paid first before any new work commenced. I believe the original engineer is also owed money.


All of the properties are suffering from some serious defect or another and many are incomplete again thousands of pounds would have to be spent on them which most people have not got now as already they've invested their life savings in this place and sadly four people have passed away over the last few years. Many of us do not have the money or time to invest.

The maps that are being shown are not correct and are misleading no 17 which is me is not on parcel 143/1 it is on parcel 142 which is why a letter of notification of the court order was sent to me. The plan which you have depicted as what you see are only an artists impression of what the site would look like for sale purposes only the parcel boundaries are correct.

We are all aware that the site was never measured properly and properties were never marked out correctly it is impossible to exactly determine where each property is sited on the official land plan from the Land Registry unless you have a full survey done which again will cost more money.

Finally I cannot understand why it is felt no one has mentioned the fact that the two people who have played a very important part (Pat & Roger) on the site as unpaid caretakers – site security - maintenance workers, dealing with police over theft and burglaries on top of having to deal with abusive creditors face to face and literally cleaning up the mess that Jim & Dan have left behind. For all of our benefits over the past four years yet they continue dealing with all of these issues now and proberly will continue to do so for years to come.

All of these problems are taking there toll on everyone but to have to live with them day in day out for them it must be an absolute nightmare and I'm sure many people will agree with me. Plus for Dave and Lyn, Pat and Roger this is their only source of residence as none of them have a home in the UK and are all living on pensions.

For us all it has been a very upsetting and stressful time and my only option I feel is to try to continue putting pressure on my solicitor.

Kind regards


Melanie

Plot 17
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Re: Correspondence

Post by Barbie26a on Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:11 am

Posted by Dave Bryan:
Melanie,


Thanks for the correspondence. I don't think anyone is forgetting the issues which you raise, indeed they are all very valid issues and ones that have been gone over and over by the people who have been looking to try find a resolution over the past few years and they have all proved to be stumbling blocks getting people to buy in to any form of communal action.


The main thing that has changed is that we face the very real threat of losing our investments and in Pat / Roger & Dave / Lynn's case, their homes unless we try and collectively find a resolution quickly.


Right now the situation is simple :


We aren't in control of anything.
We do not own the title deeds to the properties
Solicitors have proved expensive and fruitless over the past 5 years.
We are at the mercy of the courts and the creditors / memorandums as this forced sale of Plot 142 has highlighted.
The contracts of sale appear to mean very little and come behind any creditors who have been involved in the build of the houses and development of the site.
Belgravia has no money to pay out any attempted litigation hence the reason why the land is being sold which means anyone on the site risks getting only a fraction if anything at all of what they have already outlaid to Belgravia and various lawyers over the years.


Whatever solution we may be able to come up with has to be in two phases :


The first phase has to be all about getting control back in the hands of the purchasers on the site(s).
This at least gives the security and time to maintain the 'status quo' without the fear/stress of people being turfed out of their homes or lose their investments.
Unfortunately, i think the only realistic option that any of us have is to collectively try and come to some sort of agreement with the creditors to pay off x% of the outstanding debt in return for controlling interest in the site(s).
It's annoying and frustrating but if we don't someone else will and then we lose all control


I personally cannot see any other way around this unless anyone else has other ideas.



Granted, in the short term this has more advantages to those who have already got 'completed' houses on the site because they can live without fear of their homes being whipped away from them but again, for the people living in fear on the site surely this has to be a good thing.


However, it has to be followed up by the second stage, which, in my opinion, is about utilising the remaining land and unsold houses in the original plan, to approach an investor to finish the site.


The major advantage of us as a group of purchasers controlling this process is that our vested interest is getting our own houses and the site finished. It's not about making a profit over the remaining houses to be sold (something which Belgravia were interested in and although I cannot substantiate this, something i suspect scuppered any form of investment previously), which then makes it a much more attractive investment to any potential candidates.


In very simple terms, the benefits to us as a collective group of purchasers is that we get a property which we own title deeds for on a finished site for the cost of paying off the creditors x% in the £. We would then have properties which are worth considerably more than we paid for them and worth considerably more than they are now (i.e. nothing!).


The benefits to a potential investor are that he gets to acquire a debt free site with 20 or so unsold houses for effectively nothing on the promise of retaining the profits from the sale of these houses on the condition that the infrastructure of the site is finished.  


There are a number of things which need to be worked through in order to formulate a plan to this effect, not least :


Appointing a solicitor to act on behalf of the group of purchasers as a whole
Negotiating an x% in the £ pay off for all creditors and gain control of the assets of Belgravia Estates as a result
Set up a company 'owned' by the purchasers to control the interests of the site(s)
Resubmitting the plans to facilitate the distribution of title deeds to purchasers.
Get commitment to collect all remaining outstanding stage payments from purchasers who owe on their houses
Produce a sales prospectus and business plan for the completion of the remaining properties, unsold houses and infrastructure on the site.
Approach various investors & manage the appointment etc.


There is no doubt that all of this will cost more money. That is for sure. The amount is going to be crucial and no one can know what that figure will be yet. But lets assume after some leg work has been put in, and it's not a completely ridiculous figure, then on condition that title deeds can and will be issued to people on completion of their properties, it has to be better in my opinion than the alternative which is more stress for those living on the site who you have mentioned who have had to deal with an awful lot over the past x number of years and the very realistic prospect that ALL of us lose the majority if not all of what we have put in.



All of this requires a tremendous amount of effort and I believe there are some people, including myself, who are willing to do the leg work (again) to come up with some figures and a more robust plan than the one that I have cobbled together above.


In fact, a lot of the work around the phase 2 completion of the site as you rightly point out, will have to be investigated up front to assess whether it is feasible. Remember though that about 40% of the properties are unsold on the overall site and this could potentially be attractive for an investor who would acquire the site 'debt free' and indeed 'free'.




Interested to hear peoples thoughts on this approach as I am not sure leaning on solicitors is going to achieve anything but more frustration and more stress for all concerned.
Regards
Dave Bryan

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Re: Correspondence

Post by Barbie26a on Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:14 am

Posted by Peter Clark:
Hi Melanie



I appreciate the recent correspondence has continued to promote a financial solution to the current problems.



However, the way the TRNC legal system works, the situation regarding the registration of the site and the type of contract we all hold mean that there is unlikely to be a legal solution that ends up with us retaining our properties if the land is sold. Yes, those purchasers with an injunction may end up with a few hundred pounds but nothing significant.



Hence why we have to find a solution that works in all our interests.



I don't think I will be criticised when I say how much we have all appreciated having Pat and Roger on site. I have corresponded with Pat many times and spoken with them when I have visited the site and made the point to other purchasers on many occasions. Believe me, we only find ourselves able to contemplate how we might find a solution because of all their efforts.



While I have been writing this I have seen Dave's email. He makes the point in much more detail. We are much stronger as a group. So let us at least explore what is possible in what might be the little time left!
Peter


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Response from Mike Gooderson (Blue Cove Plot 1)

Post by MikeE on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:59 pm

Hi All,

Since the email regarding the issuing of by the court of a compulsory sale order on one block of land, I've spoken with Naomi Mehmet - who it appears a majority of us purchasers have been using. I asked:


(i)    if we, as non-Cypriots, are allowed to buy the land either as individuals or a consortium.

(ii)   if we could bid for the parcels of land as they come up for auction.

(iii)  if we could form a company to buy the land assets of Peninsular Heights & Blue Cove from Belgravia.  

To date I've received a reply advising that we could try applying to the courts to postpone the compulsory sale order, but this would involve going through lawyers and further fees. They also advised that there is no guarantee that the court would grant this postponement.

As regards our rights to purchase individual parcels of land as compulsory sale orders are placed on them - I've not received a reply as yet. Does anyone else know the answer?

NM advise that there are considerable claims against Belgravia - and the only assets appear to be the Peninsular Heights and Blue Cove development sites. Even then it is unclear whether Belgravia owns all or part of the Blue Cove land. Clearly whatever the value of the land assets, these are not going to sufficient to clear the debts - although a number of these court injunctions may relate to claims made by the purchasers on Peninsular Heights & Blue Cove. Again I cannot find any actual debt values - can anyone else help?

I am of the opinion that it is not worth trying to use NM or any other TCy lawyers to pursue these matters further for us through the Courts, without we can clearly see us getting some return for this investment.

The value of the sites is depressed (indeed, that of Blue Cove since the new road has been built must be severely devalued), with the development immediately adjoining the roadside and at the same level now.

If we are able to bid for the plots when they go to auction, it may be possible for those whose villas are on these plots to buy them. The plots which are sold by compulsory sale order come with no debt and a guaranteed title.

I understand that these are put up for auction with a reserve price - and if this not achieved it will not be sold, but re-auctioned at a later date.

I would be interested to hear if what I've written is correct - and whether others feel there is a way forward that we can unite together to use any of these or other ideas.

I am not clear if we are able to address the court if a compulsory sale order is placed on our plot - maybe someone may know?  

Regards
Mike & Hazel Gooderson
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Reply from Steve Oates - see sent emails for attached Spreadsheet of Creditor's debts

Post by MikeE on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:06 am

Dear All

Sorry everyone I forgot I had this information, it was Mike’s email below that jolted my memory and made me search my files

I kept in contact in Jim Hasip up until about 2 years ago. When things were clearly going belly up at Belgravia Estates I asked Jim how much the outstanding debts were and what would it cost to finish off the site, selling the idea to him that that I might be able to find some investors for him or maybe go into some form of partnership with him myself………..What was I thinking !!! When I got the attachment and saw the numbers, it was a non-starter plus at the time the economic situation in the Eurozone was getting worse.

The information in the attachment was sent to me in November 2011. I think gives us some useful information and shows debt by supplier. Having looked at it today for the first time in three years it is truly shocking. I have got to hand it to him, Hasip knows how to bounce cheques.

I accept that some of our group are not in a financial position to put any more monies into this, or those that even if they could, would not want too. But I do agree with the points Dave Bryan made in his email yesterday and would support working with those of us that are prepared to try and salvage something from this situation

Best regards


Steve Oates



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Sale of Land - Jessica Smart

Post by MikeE on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:09 am

Hı Peter
Further to my emaıl regardıng Parcel 142 we vısıted out solıcıtor yesterday and he ıs of the ımpresıon when speakıng wıth Land Regısry that there ıs sale of all the land and not just parcel 142. He ıs goıng to Land Regıstry next week to confırm thıs and see ıf there ıs any way round the sıtuatıon by speakıng wıth them and the credıtors. He ıs goıng to ınform me further ın 10 days tıme as there ıs a holıday thıs Frıday tıll next Tuesday.
Jessıe
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Questions for the Lawyers - Peter Clark

Post by MikeE on Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:11 am

Hı Peter
Further to my emaıl regardıng Parcel 142 we vısıted out solıcıtor yesterday and he ıs of the ımpresıon when speakıng wıth Land Regısry that there ıs sale of all the land and not just parcel 142.  He ıs goıng to Land Regıstry next week to confırm thıs and see ıf there ıs any way round the sıtuatıon by speakıng wıth them and the credıtors.  He ıs goıng to ınform me further ın 10 days tıme as there ıs a holıday thıs Frıday tıll next Tuesday.
Jessıe
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Questions for the lawyers

Post by JeffD on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:18 am

Mike/Peter

Do we have an update on this situation yet given the 10 days mentioned in Mike's reply on 1st October?

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Re: Correspondence

Post by MikeE on Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:25 am

Hi Jeff
Sorry to have taken so long to reply. As people have not been using the forum but rather the group emails, I haven't been monitoring this lately.
I have heard nothing more since Jessica's message. Things are happening, however, and Peter has talked about a group Skype call. I'll remind him of this and mention your posting.
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Update if any on latest situation

Post by JeffD on Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:51 am

Mike do we have any further information on what is happening to the site and the proposed compulsory sale

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Re: Correspondence

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